Melanie and I had an IM conversation the other day and afterwards we both thought it would make a good blog post. We'd love to hear what others might think of our line of thinking....
Kelly: I think the authority isn't "real".. It still feels very much like I am doing all the pulling instead of there being more a balance of my pull and his push. I am choosing to follow, which of course will always be the case, but... until he really leads, truly asserts his authority and I’m confident that authority is real and not just a game, or not just because Kelly told me to do it, then it will continue to feel one sided. I would guess it will take time and consistency and probably a punishment or maybe more than one, that pushes me beyond my limits, past where he knew he was causing me real pain for me to gain confidence that he’s pushing as much as I’m pulling.
Until then, on some level it feels not quite like a game, but... like we are playing at something - not sure how to say this and I’m truly not unhappy at all, I think we're heading there... but this is something I’ve been mulling over in the past week or so.
Melanie: I think it is frustrating. You can’t make them own it or it's not them really owning it. It's a kind of powerless stage because you want it to move forward but you can't move it forward. He has to. Unless there is some way I don't know.
Kelly: I agree and really I'm not complaining or unhappy, this is just something that has recently occurred to me. Along with what I now think is one of the main reasons I started this in the first place which is I think wanting or maybe needing a really grounded and specific and tangible way to know he's paying attention to me. I really think it all traces back to that which is surprising at the least to think that is part of why, but I think it is.
I've spent time trying to understand why I wanted this, but have really not known the reason, only known that it felt totally and completely right, that my gut was screaming at me to go this way, but I think that's it and so then... now that I'm (for the moment) fairly comfortable that we're on this path, whatever it might be, I've been thinking about that thing that will make what I was looking for to begin with - be true. And that's when he's not just doing it because he thinks that's what I want today, where he's ready to change and do something different if that’s what I want tomorrow.
Of course, this totally flies in the face of what I used to think about this. I used to read of others not happy that their husbands’ were doing this “just because they asked them to” and I’d always think, in fact I’m sure I’ve told Dan this, that that was ridiculous. That there is no reason in the world that my husband/ or anyone else's doing something just because it makes me happy could be a bad thing. And no, it's not a bad thing, not ever. In a marriage you both do things just because it makes your spouse happy and there’s nothing wrong with that and his motives don't make the actions any less valid, but now I think I get what people where saying.
I still think that’s all true, but I’m not sure it’s as relevant for this particular issue. I think until his motives are personal, then it matters. Until he really owns it, until he is truly confident enough to push me, Until I knew confidently that he would stand up to me and maybe that will take a few painful punishments that are more then him watching the clock and worrying that he is crossing the line, then it's still very much my thing and not his. And until then I will not be getting the thing I think I'm looking for which is a concrete way to know he's paying attention.
Right now I have a concrete way to know he's currently listening to me and acting on what I'm asking him to do, but not a concrete way to know he’s actually paying attention and I think that’s different enough to matter.
Melanie: I do see the difference - and I think it is different enough to matter but alas, I want the paying attention too - not just the listening. Is that wrong? Should the listening be enough?
Kelly: to you... what is the difference between the listening and the paying attention to, give me an example.
Melanie: it's like the difference between going for awhile with no spanking and me saying "I want a spanking" and him giving it. OR him saying "you haven't had a spanking in awhile, we should have one tonight" and following through
Kelly: so if he comes up with the idea that's him paying attention, if he does as you've asked, that's him listening
Melanie: ya
Kelly: So no I don’t' think that's bad, I think that's it exactly. If I could, for a moment, project my thoughts/feelings on to you... if you could concretely count on Thomas to come up with it on his own for the most part, it would be perfectly fine if on this particular day or at this particular moment he didn't and you had to ask but without the real confidence on your part that he really is paying attention, that this and thus *you* are a priority - something important enough to pay attention to, then it's not enough
Melanie: that's exactly what I told him the other night. I just think that's him being AWARE of our relationship and wanting to take care of it the way he takes care of other things in his life. We've had a talk two nights in a row and they’ve both been very good; yesterday was great actually. But low in behold if he doesn't threaten and act HOHy all day - even threatened me in front of my parents (which made them laugh hysterically), and then we get home and crawl in bed and nothing. The man was whining about how his back hurt and when I sighed at one point he was all whiny "are you mad at me?" and I was like “who the heck ARE you?” and we talked for a minute and then suddenly I was face down and getting spanked BUT that was him listening not him pay attention. If you're going to threaten all day FOLLOW THROUGH.
Kelly: Right, but if the confidence had already been established it just wouldn't be that big of a deal if he came home and on this particular night he was too tired to follow through because you would know that he'd do it first thing in the morning or whatever. And yes I totally agree - that's him listening and not him paying attention.
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4 comments:
I thought your post is very valid, in saying you wish he would listen, you don't want to do all the pushing. For us newbies, with guys not wired...I want to think of it more like guiding. Luke is coming around slowly, making baby steps, at times, frustrating because I wish he would walk faster. I know you have seen some positives things happen and I'm sure he has too. One virtue I know is being molded...is patience. Take care,
Katia
Good subject! For years, Lash would talk a good game, but never follow through (this was all erotic spanking stuff) but when we started DD, suddenly HE was getting something out of it and started to own it. It's kind of a mystery to me - I'm not sure exactly what happened inside his brain. He wrote a couple of posts on my blog about it: "Hi from Lash" and "Firm Hand Starts New Chapter". I wish more guys would write about it or help the newbie guys along. Good Luck, Meow
I can identify, and thank you for posting this because there aren't a lot of blogs that I've found that deal with the issues of people still sorting this out. It's hard to work out the logistics when you're the one who asked for it, and for me though he vocalizes he's in agreement, his level of buy-in has not necessarily matched my original expectations. My husband would scale mountains for me, if I asked, and it's hard to express to him how that is different from doing it from his own volition. I constantly ask myself whether I should bring up instances where I wish he would have done things differently, or let it go and let him find it on his own. It seems to be a dance between 'he's not into this like you but willing to learn' and 'you're moving too fast, he'll figure it out' and 'don't force it, he's just trying to please you but isn't really into it'. I know this probably sounds like we need to talk more, but we have - neither of us is really very good at talking, but we manage to work things out generally.
The reason it matters in DD, where it wouldn't necessarily matter in other areas of life, is that in DD him leading of his own volition is the entire point. If you don't have that, you don't really have DD. That said, it takes time and several (lots and lots...like a year or more worth)) good experiences before it starts to become natural.
Good post and interesting blog!
Katy
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